28 May 2015


                      What are Catholics to think of Vatican II?
                           
                                                By the Society of St. Pius X

The Second Vatican Council was a meeting of the world’s bishops for four sessions between October 11, 1962 and December 8, 1965.
Pope John XXIII, in his opening speech to the Council (November 11, 1962), declared its aims to be the following:
Second Vatican Council in session
  • that the Catholic Faith should be kept and taught,
  • but taught in the language of modern man by a magisterium “which is predominantly pastoral in character,”
  • and this without resorting to any condemnations,
  • thus appealing to all peoples (this Council was to be ecumenical, not only in the sense of being a general council of the Church, but also in that of appealing to the religiosity of all people of whatever religion).
Pope Paul VI agreed with his predecessor:
[Vatican II] was the most important [event] because... above all it sought to meet pastoral needs and, nourishing the flame of charity, it has made a great effort to reach not only the Christians still separated from communion with the Holy See, but also the whole human family. (Closing Brief, December 8, 1965)
With such ideals, it is little wonder to find Catholic teaching presented:
  • weakly (no definitions or condemnations),
  • confusedly (no technical, scholastic terminology),
  • and one-sidedly (so as to attract non-Catholics).
All such vague and ambiguous teaching, already liberal in its method, would be interpreted in its true liberal sense after the Council. Consider, for example:
Conciliar teaching
How interpreted by Rome[1]
The liturgy of the word is stressed (Sacrosanctum Concilium, §9),[2] and the banquet aspect (§10), as well as active participation (§§11,14), and therefore the vernacular (§§36,54).
The New Mass (cf. question 5).
Catholics should pray with Protestants (Unitatis Redintegratio, §§4,8).
Eucharistic hospitality (cf. question 8).
The Church of Christ subsists in (not is) the Catholic Church (Lumen Gentium, §8),
It is also in “separated Churches” (Ut Unum Sint, §11).[3]
which has separated brethren in separated “Churches” (Unitatis Redintegratio, §3),
All the baptized are in Christ’s Church (Ut Unum Sint, §42).
which ought to be as sisters (Unitatis Redintegratio, §14).
And so there is no need to convert,e.g., the Orthodox.[4]
Seminarians should take into account modern philosophy, progress in science (Optatam Totius, §15),
Secular university studies and abandoning Thomism.
psychology, and sociology (§20).
Open spirituality and subjective morality.
Marriage and married love equated (Gaudium et Spes, §§48,50).
Annulments fiasco (cf. question 8).
The Church renounces privileges civil authorities grant her (§76).
Catholic religion no longer to be the religion of any States.
Wish for a world authority (§82).
Full support for UN
Rite and formula of penance are to be revised (Sacrosanctum Concilium §72).
Face to face confessions and General Absolutions.[5]
Extreme Unction should be an Anointing of the Sick (§§73,75).
New matter, form and subject (i.e.,the sick, not just those in danger of death).
Table footnotes
1 How Rome's guidelines are further interpreted as seen in the parishes is a whole other story.
2 The documents of Vatican II are referred to by their introductory Latin words, or by the initials of these.
Ut Unum Sint, Pope John Paul II, May 25, 1995.
Cf., The Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, which forbade mutual "proselytizing." Balamand, Lebanon, June 17-24, 1993.
5 Does this affect the "substance of the sacraments" over which the Church has no power?  (Cf., Pius XII, quoted in principle 5)
More gravely, the Council was hijacked by the liberal elements within the Church, who from the very beginning schemed to have rejected the pre-conciliar preparatory schemas and replaced by progressive ones prepared by their own “experts.” The liberals were also able to get their members onto the Council Commissions. The new schemas, passed as the Council’s decrees, constitutions, and declarations, contain, more or less explicitly, some of the same doctrinal errors for which liberals in the past had been condemned. Let us take by way of example the following passages:
Vatican II teaching
Catholic teaching
"Man is the only creature on earth that God has wanted for its own sake" (Gaudium et Spes, §24),
"The Lord hath made all things for Himself" (Prov. 16),
and "all things on earth should be ordained to man" (§12).
...to help him save his soul.
Moreover, "by His incarnation the Son of God has in a certain way united Himself with each man" (§22),
God assumed an individual nature (e.g., Dz. 114),
so "Human nature... has been raised in us also to a dignity beyond compare" (§22),
"...a little less than the angels..."(Ps. 8:6)
and because of "sublime dignity of the human person" (§26),
Only he who lives well is worthy (Apoc. 3:4).
his "rights and duties are universal and inviolate" (§26); including:
He who buries his talent will be stripped of it
"The Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom..." (Dignitatis Humanae, §2),
Contrary condemned statement:  "Liberty of conscience and of worship is the proper right of every man..." (Pius IX, Quanta Cura)
"...all men should be immune from coercion on the part of ...every human power so that, within due limits, nobody is forced to act against his convictions nor is anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his convictions..." (§2),
Contrary condemned statement:  "...the best condition of society is the one in which there is no acknowledgment by the government of the duty of restraining... offenders of the Catholic religion, except insofar as the public peace demands" (Pius IX, Quanta Cura).
"This right of the human person to religious freedom must be given such recognition in the constitutional order of society as will make it a civil right" (§2), 
Contrary condemned statement:  "Liberty of conscience and of worship ... should be proclaimed and asserted by law in every correctly established society..." (Pius IX, Quanta Cura)
"...the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using (separated churches) as means of salvation" (Unitatis Redintegratio, §3), and so, 
"ecumenical action should be encouraged so that ... Catholics might cooperate with their separated brethren ...by a common profession before the nations of faith in God and in Jesus Christ..."  (Ad Gentes, §115).
Why, even concerning non-Christian religions: "The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is good and holy in these religions.  She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct..." (Nostra Aetate, §2),
"All the gods of the Gentiles are devils." Ps. 95. "... beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations" (Dt. 18:9).
"Now, episcopal consecration confers, together with the office of sanctifying, the duty also of teaching and ruling..." (§21).
"This (episcopal) dignity, in fact, depends immediately on God as to the power of orders, and on the Apostolic See as to the power of jurisdiction..." (Deesemus Nos, Pius VI).
The Council itself both encouraged liberal trends (and its encouragement became post-conciliar Vatican policy) and departed from traditional Catholic teaching, but it has no authority for either (principle 5).
Our position must be:
...we refuse ...to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies which became clearly manifest during the Second Vatican Council and, after the Council, in all the reforms which issued from it. (1974 Declaration of Archbishop Lefebvre)
And it is neo-Modernist tendencies that the Council is all about ("...Pope John Paull II makes not Holy Scripture, but rather Assisi, the shibboleth for the current understanding of the Council.Pope John Paul II's Theological Journey to the Prayer Meeting of Religions in Assisi, Part I, p. 46 [appendix 2]).

But wasn't the Council infallible?
  • Not by reason of the extraordinary magisterium, for it refused to define anything. Pope Paul VI himself, in an audience on January 12, 1966, said that it “had avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner dogmas affected by the mark of infallibility.” (cf. the declaration of the Theological Commission of March 6, 1964, and repeated by the Council's General Secretary on November 16, 1964: "In view of conciliar practice and the pastoral purpose of the present Council, this sacred Synod defines matters of faith or morals as binding on the Church only when the Synod itself openly declares so." It never did.)
  • Nor by reason of the ordinary universal magisterium, because this is not a defining power, but one of passing on what was always believed. The “universality” in question is not just one of place (all bishops) but also of time (always) (cf., Vatican I and principle 6).
  • Nor even by reason of the simply authentic magisterium, because the object of all magisterium is the deposit of faith to be guarded sacredly and expounded faithfully (Vatican I, Dz 1836), and not to adopt as Catholic doctrine the “best expressed values of two centuries of ‘liberal culture,’” even if they are “purified” (Cardinal Ratzinger, Gesu, November 1984, p. 72; cf. Gaudium et Spes, §§11, 44).


More on this topic
Reforming the crisis:
Roberto de Mattei observes

History never repeats itself exactly but the past helps us to understand the present. In the 16th century, the Catholic Church went through an unprecedented crisis... 4-3-2013
50-year assessment of Vatican II
The response given by the Society! I think that everything is summed up in one word, and that is Archbishop Lefebvre. All that we have, all that we do, we have received from Archbishop Lefebvre... 1-18-2013 DICI
Is the SSPX heretical?
A 4-part reply to Archbishop Mueller's recent statement that Vatican II must be accepted as an integral part of the magisterium or be considered heretical...
 12-19-2012
The Synod on the New Evangelization in the Spirit of Vatican II
The Synod admits that the new evangelization is “urgent” in de-Christianized modern society, but it nonetheless wishes to see the Council provide the means to answer this emergency...  11-9-2012 DICI
Can we commemorate the Council?
Recently an academic was bold enough to compare the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the opening of Vatican II on October 11, 1962, with the secular ceremonies held in 1989 in honor of the 200th anniversary of the French Revolution...  11-9-2012 DICI
Misplaced conciliar optimism
50 years after the opening of Vatican II, we are quite far from the optimism of John XXIII, who declared on October 11, 1962: "It seems to Us necessary to state our complete disagreement with those prophets of gloom who always announce catastrophes"... 10-26-2012
Washington Post: SSPX has solution to Vatican II debacle!
"And the SSPX, a traditionalist order of priests, has forced the Vatican to address the substance of the Second Vatican Council..." 10-25-2012
The Second Vatican Council: A History Never Written
This is certainly what many a traditionalist thinks about this major Church event of the 20th century. The real history of the Council needs to be written-up right! Well, this in fact is the title of a non-traditional professor, Roberto de Mattei offering a distinct viewpoint from what the Bologna school has offered since then...  10-12-2012
Vatican II: a "stupefying superficiality" of Magisterium
In Vatican II, a Much-Needed Discussion, Msgr. Gherardini wrote: "With a stupefying superficiality they stretched out over the previous Magisterium a veil, or a shroud, preventing the observer from taking his bearings from the past, from the Tradition that is a constitutive part of the Church and the central pillar of Christianity..." 10-12-2012 DICI
Some notes on the resolution of the crisis in the Church
Learning from history how the crises of the Church were solved in the past, the expectation and/or demand of a total reversal of Rome’s present positions as a pre-condition to our “reunion” appear to be utopian and illusory.
Some people seem to be expecting the Pope to fall on his knees, cry out his mea culpa, apologize before the whole world and retract everything that has been done since Vatican II... 5-25-2012 DICI
"Not all of Vatican II is binding": Analyzing the comments of Cardinal Brandmuller
"Strangely enough, the two most controversial documents" for the SSPX - those on religious freedom and on relations with non-Christians - "do not have a binding doctrinal content, so one can dialogue about them," the cardinal said... 5-24-2012
Catholic Faith or the Triumph of the Will?
Dr. Rao: Nowhere but nowhere does anyone ever find the Church of Christ - infallible and divinely prudent at one and the same time - requiring a sweeping wholehearted acceptance of everything doctrinal, and pastoral (as opposed to dogmatic) that every ecumenical council has proclaimed... 5-23-2012
Gherardini agrees with SSPX in new book about Vatican II
Msgr. Gherardini is a phenomenon producing seismic reactions in the Roman milieu. His is a dissenting voice in the all too common chorus of Hosanna in praise of the past Council... 5-11-2012
Is recognizing the SSPX questioning the Council?
"The rift between the Holy See and the SSPX arises because the Society rejects these particular elements of Vatican II [religious liberty, ecumenism, collegiality], not because of an intention on the part of the Holy See to defend Vatican II as a whole"… 4-19-2012 

“Magisterium or living tradition?”, Fr. Gleize denounces a false dilemma

"Why this confusion? Why reduce the living magisterium to the magisterium of the present? Because since Vatican II they have been trying to invent a new magisterium. The magisterium is redefined, because its task [now] is to express the continuity of a subject and no longer the continuity of an object..." 2-3-2012 DICI
SSPX answers Roman expert
L’Osservatore Romano of December 2, 2011, published a study by Msgr. Fernando Ocariz, one of the four experts who represented the Holy See during the recent doctrinal discussions with the SSPX October 2009-April 2011). The central question of the magisterial value of the Second Vatican Council is addressed straightforwardly, yet nevertheless insufficiently... 1-31-2012 http://archives.sspx.org/images/headers/pdf_button.png
Debate about Vatican II: Fr. Gleize responds to Msgr. Ocariz
On at least 4 points, the teachings of Vatican II are obviously in logical contradiction to the pronouncements of the previous traditional Magisterium, so that it is impossible to interpret them in keeping with the other teachings already contained in the earlier documents of the Church’s Magisterium... 12-29-2011 DICI
Msgr. Gherardini: Vatican II is not a super-dogma
A translation of an insightful article by Msgr. Gherardini which provides an answer to Msgr. Ocariz's recent published defense of Vatican II. The article causes one to ask: If the Second Vatican Council is part of the Magisterium what adherence must be given to its text? 12-12-2011
Cardinal says post-conciliar Church is historically & theologically illegitimate!
"But there cannot be, nor could there be, a pre-Conciliar Church and a post-Conciliar Church! If this could be so, the second one—ours—would be historically and theologically illegitimate!" 11-10-2011

Roman Debates on the eve of Vatican II’s golden jubilee
It is rather encouraging to witness the controversy over the conciliar era broaden its front and coming from Rome. Fireworks are already sending sparks from all sides, on the eve of the golden jubilee of the opening of the Council... 10-28-2011
Fissures in the impregnable walls of Vatican II: a petition to the pope
An SSPX.ORG commentary and some extracts about DICI's posting, "50 Catholic leaders petition Pope Benedict XVI for a more in-depth examination of the Second Vatican Council" 10-14-2011
50 Catholic leaders petition Pope Benedict XVI for a more in-depth examination of the Second Vatican Council
"In our souls and consciences as believers, this petition, written with all deference toward You, seems perfectly in harmony, we dare say, with the work of restoring, renewing and purifying the Church Militant that Your Holiness has courageously undertaken, despite resistance and difficulties of all sorts that are known to everyone..." 10-14-2011
The Second Ecumenical Vatican Council: a Debate That Has Not Taken Place, by Msgr. Brunero Gherardini
This book is a sequel to The Second Ecumenical Vatican Council: a Debate To Be Opened, that appeared in 2009. In this new work, Msgr. Gherardini does not stop at deploring that the debate on Vatican II shouldn't take place, he even shows why it would be more indispensable than ever today. And above all, he indicates how this debate could be opened, giving the reader the first elements of a rigorous analysis, far from sterile invectives and blind ovations... 9-19-2011
Vatican II: a debate between Romano Amerio, Msgr. Gherardini and Msgr. Pozzo
A brief analysis on the "authentic interpretation" of Vatican II 9-29-2010 DICI
Two Key Points for the Church's Recovery
Some insightful solutions for ending the ecclesiastical crisis 10-12-2010

Two Interpretations of Vatican II: Myth or Reality?
Covers the two opposing views of the Council. Includes the article "The Erosion of the Council's Authority"
Reply of Archbishop Lefebvre to Cardinal Ottaviani after the Council
Written in December 1966, nearly a year after the conclusion of Vatican II, Archbishop Lefebvre details the confusion that was already occurring so early in the missionary Africa amongst the Holy Ghost Fathers
Archbishop Lefebvre Preparing the Council (1959 - 1962)
A brief story about Archbishop Lefebvre's preparing the original schema for Vatican II
How are Catholics to respond to the present crisis in the Church?
Fr. Peter Scott gives an excellent analysis and practical answers to this important question
Post-Conciliar Church: is it a new religion?
This Catholic FAQ makes the proper distinctions while showing the revolutionary nature of Vatican II
Collegiality
Fr. Basil Wrighton explains this keynote error of Vatican II and the liberal machinations that caused its adoption by Vatican II
Roman Protestants
This classic 1982 article by Fr. Wrighton demonstrates how "the spirit of Vatican II" is protestantizing Catholics
Off Center
Is belief in the Catholic Faith "left", "right" or "center"?  Supposedly after Vatican II, such groups do not indeed exist and exemplify how closely Catholics adhere to the "super" Council. This philosophical defense by Dr. Peter Chojnowski demolishes such a liberal view
What Should We Make of Assisi I & II?
Explains dangerous theological mentalities of Assisi I (held in 1986) and its devastating consequences. Also applicable to Assisi II (2002). Include further related materials





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