4 Feb 2018

Old Testament filled with violence just like the Koran?

An enquiry

by Jonathan Ekene Ifeanyi

Francis and Muslims reading the Koran
Few days ago, I tried contrasting “Pope” Francis’ teaching on the Koran with what we truly find in the Koran. I posted my comments on a certain facebook page (named, Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic Discourse). The attack I got will shock you! I was vigorously attacked by both Catholics and Protestants who dismissed my post with the assertion that “both the Old Testament and the Koran are filled with violence”. Unfortunately before I could post further comments to counter them, I was already “suspended”! 

Here was what I posted:

“Francis: “...for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Quran are opposed to every form of violence.”  (Amoris, paragraph #253.

“Quran: (Sura 9 verse 123): “O you who believe! Fight those of disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find hardness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

“Quran: (Sura 2:193; 2: 244): “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah). And fight in the way of Allah and know that Allah is All-Hearer, All-knower.”

“Quran: (Sura 47 verse 4): “So, when you meet (in fight—Jihad in Allah’s Cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them…”

Michael Stratton was the first to “counter” me. Unfortunately I can’t quote his exact comments here because before I could respond to him I was already “suspended” and the post itself was deleted! But he did so by quoting the Book of Numbers (Chapter 31 where such “violence” is located!). His point — and the point of others as well — was that both the Old Testament and the Koran are “filled with violence” — therefore I must shut up!

Below was the answer I wanted to post before I was “suspended”:

Anyway, Michael Stratton, here is my response to your “Violence in the Old Testament” (I pray they won’t delete it as well!):

First of all you demonstrated clearly that you are NOT a Christian. If you are, you should have known that EVERY SINGLE KILLING IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IS JUSTIFIABLE BECAUSE THEY WERE ORDERED BY GOD – WHEREAS THE KILLINGS IN THE KORAN ARE SIMPLY DEMONIC BECAUSE THEY WERE ORDERED BY THE DEVIL.

You remind me of Michael Hardman (another Michael but a sincere one!) who once raised the same question. He said:

“Jonathan - "every single killing of a human being in the O.T. is perfectly justifiable". Hmm.

“Is it justifiable, when the Israelites complained that too many people were being killed, then to send a plague that kills 14,700 more? (Numbers 16: 41-49)

“Is it justifiable for the Israelites to kill all the Midianites (save for the virgins, who they were allowed to rape)? (Numbers 31: 7-18)

“Is it justifiable to kill 50,070 men for looking into the ark of the covenant? (1 Samuel 6: 19)
“Is it justifiable for 42 boys to be torn up by bears for mocking Elisha? (2 Kings 2: 23-24)”

And here was my response:

“If you really believe in God, Michael, then I expect you to be wise in your "reasoning". But I would have no problem with the said "reasoning" if you don't.

“Every single killing in the O.T. (i.e. those authorised by God) is PERFECTLY JUSTIFIABLE. But the killings authorised by Allah in the Quran (such as killing everyone who refuses to convert) are not just questionable — they're demonic.

“First of all, in the Old Testament anyone who sinned against God was given instant judgement — often killing. Today (under the New Testament) all who sin against God will also receive their just punishment but in the next life — though some do receive part of those punishments here on earth as well. So the situation (in the Old and new Testaments) is basically the same. It doesn't matter how long bad people live on this earth — once they die they face the reality. Hence Christ said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfil them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…" (Matthew 5:17-18).

“That said, in Numbers 16: 41-49 a man called Core and his adherents committed a very serious sin: they revolted against two servants of God — humble Moses himself and Aaron the priest! In fact, their sin is similar to the sin of today’s Protestants: they wanted Moses and Aron (anointed servants of God) to stop being their leaders and declared that all the people should lead themselves! That all the people should be priests and prophets as well! This was (probably) the first sin of schism! Like most people in this era, they blasphemed the Lord. So they were justifiably punished by God. “And the Lord speaking to Moses and Aaron, said: separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may presently destroy them.” (Numbers 16:20-21).

“Moses addressed the people, and scripture says that immediately after Moses had finished speaking, “the earth broke asunder under their feet: And opening her mouth, devoured them with their tent and all their substance. And they went down alive into hell, the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among the people.” (Ibid. 31-33). Those that offered incense following Core (250 of them) were also destroyed (by fire), so also those who later accused Moses of killing Core and his adherents (14,700). As for the faithful Israelites, Aaron prayed for them and the plague stopped. (Ibid. 41-49).

“In Numbers 31: 7-18 the Midianites were slain for having drawn the people of Israel into sin. You’re lying by saying that they raped the Midianite women! The Israelites did not rape their women. The scripture says: “And they took their women, and their children captives...” (Numbers 31:9). Moses of course rebuked them for this: “And Moses being angry with the chief officers of the army, the tribunes, and the centurions that were come from the battle, said: Why have you saved the women? Are not these they, that deceived the children of Israel by the counsel of Balaam, and made you transgress against the Lord by the sin of Phogor, for which also the people was punished? Therefore kill all that are of the male sex, even of the children: and put to death the women, that have carnally known men. But the girls, and all the women that are virgins save for yourselves.” (Numbers 31:14-18). They were to MARRY—and not to RAPE—those virgins, something common in those days. So what’s your problem with that?

““Is it justifiable to kill 50,070 men for looking into the ark of the covenant? (1 Samuel 6: 19)”.

“Well I don’t blame you. I rather blame the culture of death in which you were certainly brought up. But I want to assure you that the present world—where freedom has become the absence of limit; where the individual is alone and there are no route maps; where there are no criteria by which different lifestyles could be evaluated; where any kind of discrimination between cultural norms as better or worse is forbidden; where there is no truth but only “what seems meaningful for me”; where there are no honoured models to shape behaviour; where religion (particularly the true one) is relegated to the margins of influence and where NOTHING IS SACRED—will definitely receive a greater punishment.

“Again, “Is it justifiable for 42 boys to be torn up by bears for mocking Elisha? (2 Kings 2: 23-24)”. I reply: Even something greater will happen to so many of today’s God-denying people who not only mock but utterly destroy all that is sacred!

“Finally, all your questions are certainly based on your arrogant assumption that man has no creator but is a master over himself. For, if you truly believe that someone actually created you (even without your consent), then it would logically follow that that person also has ABSOLUTE RIGHT over you — right to make laws for you to obey and even the right to terminate your very life anytime he wishes to do so.

“Now the funny thing is that you certainly would have no problem with the government of your country when, for instance, a law offender is legally executed (and I mean man-made laws). But you quickly question the creator of the world for destroying those who are going against His commandments, His laws!”

And sincere Michael Hardman, unlike demon-possessed Michael Stratton, said: “Jonathan, many thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail. Apologies if I came across as arrogant; that was certainly not my intention. I am just trying to understand, and there is much food for thought in what you have said.”

Let us beware of modern “Catholics” (especially followers of John Paul II and other V2 Popes!) and Protestants. Some of these people are simply worse than atheists. They don’t really believe in the Bible, rather they only pick and choose. They pick what they like and throw away what they don’t like. The reason behind this attitude? See: Francis and his gang of heretics pushing for women ordination.

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